Mar 1998
Sebastien Moig
JazzoSphere
France
> 1- Could you introduce you to the french public ?
> ( Who are you ? , When did you start to play music , ... )
My name is Ellery Eskelin. I play tenor saxophone. I've been a resident of
New York City since 1983. I began making recordings under my own name in
1987. Since then I have appeared on at least 30 recordings including work
with drummer Joey Baron, bassist Mark Helias, drummer Gerry Hemingway and
many others.
I began playing music at age in 1969 at age 10 in Baltimore. My mother plays
Hammond B3 organ and she exposed me to jazz and popular American standards at
an early age. She is the person who most interested me to begin playing
music.
> 2- What does represent Gene Ammons for you ? Who are the musiciens who
> influenced you when you started your carreer ?
Gene Ammons was one of my first big heroes on the saxophone. I first heard
one of his records when I was about 13 or 14 years old. I was immediately
drawn to his sound, very emotional for me. I also listened to Sonny Stitt,
Stan Getz, Lee Konitz, and John Coltrane. Later on I began listening to
everyone in jazz, drawing my inspiration from the entire tradition. Today I
listen to all types of music.
> 3- Could you tell us something about your work with Joey Barron ?
Joey Baron asked me to join his band sometime around 1990 or '91. He had an
idea to form a band with saxophone, trombone and drums. We spoke at length
about what he wanted to accomplish with this group musically. I have been
able to redefine my role as a saxophonist and I have also attempted to do
this in groups of my own as well. With Joey I have to constantly be aware of
the shifting of roles in the music. There are only three of us to support the
entire sound. He writes things that are sometimes deceptively simple but the
concept behind what he is doing is actually rather deep.
> 4- You often play in trio (with Jim Black & Andrea Parkins, with
> Joey Baron's Barondown, with Mark Helias and Tom Rainey). Is that the
> formation you prefer to play with, and why ?
Yes, I have been very interested in the nature of trio playing for quite some
time. It allows the players a greater freedom and responsibility in
redefining their role in the group. Often times we must make the music sound
as if there are more elements in it than three people can normally make. This
means we have to play much differently than in larger groups where there is
not quite so much room for each player. Since I am very interested in
changing the role and function of the saxophone in improvising ensembles the
trio configuration appeals to me the most.
> 5- You recorded in 1992 the solo CD " Premonition " . Do you like to
> play solo, and do you think you'll do it again ?
Playing solo is the greatest challenge for an improviser. I am responsible
for sustaining the entire music all by myself which can be very rewarding yet
very demanding. I found that it changed the way I play the saxophone greatly,
even in ensembles. Since "Premonition" was recorded I have performed solo
concerts in New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. I do not know if I will record
another solo CD any time soon, perhaps sometime in the future.
> 6- How do you choose the titles of your songs on your CDs ? What does
> mean for exemple T64K37B on your last record "One Great Day "?
I choose the titles after I compose the music. It sometimes takes me a very
long time to arrive at a suitable title. I look for a title that has a
certain sound or particular mood or feel. It does not always have to be
directly correlated to the music in a literal sense, it just has to feel good
to me. T64K37B does not have a literal meaning. I just wanted to make a title
that sounded like a serial number. It is a bit of a joke since the
composition was based on the sound of "serial music". Since the composition
was a bit of a humorous play on that sound I decided that a "less than
serious" title was fitting.
> 7-Why do you use since 1994 the new musical technologies (sampler) .
> Don't you think they can sometimes distort (denature) the sound ?
Yes, I do think that they can sometimes distort the sound. That is why I like
them! Samplers are not meant as a replacement for natural sounds, they are
instruments unto themselves. With samplers one can manipulate phrasing,
create new sounds, and create new contexts for familiar sounds. There are
some new and interesting musical territories that are being forged in the
areas of DJ culture, with turntables and samplers. Most jazz musicians are
not aware or interested in these ideas but I find them to be very
stimulating.
> 8- For a while you produce your records . Why ?
> As well , can you tell us about the "I Died Today" recording by Rodd Keith
> .
In the beginning there was no one who was interested in the music that I was
doing. I usually had to create a recording by myself and then sell it to a
record company afterwards. This allowed me to make recordings exactly in the
fashion that I desired. Even when working with an established record company
and producer, I still handle most of the production at the recording session
myself. Who better to realize my ideas? Sometimes I like a little help but I
usually have a very clear idea of what I want.
"I Died Today" is a collection of music that my father Rodd Keith recorded
from the 1960's up until his death in 1974. He worked in Los Angeles for
companies that would set lyrics to music for the general public. Often the
lyrics that were sent in were very strange and sometimes humorous. The music
was done very fast and has a strange and sometimes humorous quality as well.
Records of this nature, called "Song Poems" have become collectors items over
the years. Rodd Keith has become something of a cult hero. I decided that it
would be a good idea to release a compilation that I put together since he
was my father. My mother and father separated when I was less than two years
old and I never got to know him before he died. This has been a way for me to
connect with him.
> 9- You compose a lot . Is that something important for you?
Yes, although I'm not sure I compose as much as some other musicians I know.
I compose for my immediate needs on a project by project basis. I do not use
many formal compositional devices so I must make discoveries of my own as I
go. Sometimes it can be a slow process. It's very important to me to compose
since my entire concept for the saxophone depends quite heavily on the
context I play in.
> 10 - How important is the improvisation in your play ?
Improvisation is perhaps the most important aspect of the music. But it is
not always in the sense of playing "jazz solos". I am always looking for
different improvisational strategies for group interaction. My compositions
generally include information that would not normally occur in the
improvising process. The improvisers must think and play like composers more
than soloists.
> 11- What are your inspirations ? New-York City ? Art ? Literature ?
I am inspired by people and daily life. I look for those odd moments in daily
life that are normally overlooked. We must exclude a lot of incoming
information just to be able to process life and survive but I find that a lot
of strange and interesting stuff happens that people do not often seem to
notice or respond to. Often an ordinary moment in life takes on a very
strange shape when you are an observer. I think that cinema captures these
types of occurrences very well.
I am also strongly attracted to the visual arts. I spend much more time in
art galleries, theater, and dance than I do at concerts. I would rather
translate these experiences to music than to concentrate on music for my
inspiration, although I do listen to a lot of music at home.
Much of what comes out in my writing and improvising also has to do with my
past experiences and what is already inside of me. It is only in the last 10
years that I have been able to put these things all together in a way that is
unique for who I am.
> 12- What do you think of the actual situation of the Jazz and creative
> music in New-York City ?
The jazz scene as it is reported by the mainstream jazz media and
disseminated by corporate record labels is a very artificial affair. It is a
relic of something from the past. It does not live and breath anymore.
Creative music is always present however, usually being ignored by the jazz
press. The underground scene is as vital and creative as it has ever been in
my opinion. There are many musicians taking the music in many directions at
once. I like the fact that it is so fragmented. There is no central figure or
movement anymore and I think that that is a great thing.
> 13 - There is in New York a lot of tenor saxophonist ( D.S WARE , CHARLES
> GAYLE, IVO PERELMAN or the young CHRIS SPEED or ASSIF TSAHAR ) . Isn't
> there a competition between you ?
No, not at all. What is there to compete for? In terms of work, there is only
the work you create for yourself. Everyone must carve out their own niche.
> Do you like their work ?
Yes, it is inspiring to see that there are other people in this field who are
doing personal, creative music. I enjoy their work very much.
I do not understand people who are very opinionated when it comes to their
tastes and preferences in music. I like MUSIC. I think that there is
something of benefit for me in every type of music. I do not understand
hating or disliking music. Too many musicians are opinionated to the point
that they miss a lot of beauty in the world.
> 14- I've lately read an article you wrote for the web site " Saxophone
> Journal " . You wrote also the liner notes of your last CD " one great day
> ". Do you think a musician needs to explain his music ?
John Coltrane always said that he wanted his music to "speak for itself" and
ultimately I agree with that. The music should be self contained, not needing
explanation for understanding. However, I enjoy writing and I think that many
people enjoy the insight provided when a musician speaks about what is on
their mind and what they are trying to do. This is not really "explaining the
music" since I believe that the music has a life of it's own. No matter what
the composer or anyone else thinks about it, the music is it's own entity,
independent from explanations of any sort. So my music and my writings are
two different things.
> 15- You only use tenor sax . Could we nevertheless see you one day , as
> many musicians do today , use others instruments to enrich your sonorous
> palette ?
I used to play all of the saxophones, flutes and clarinet but over the years
I decided to concentrate on my first and only love, the tenor saxophone. I
enjoyed playing the other instruments but I felt that there are many other
musicians who are more interested in playing them and making them part of
their artistic expression than I. I could play them well enough but I
realized that it would take an enormous effort to develop a personal voice on
each one of them. I find that when I play only one instrument, the tenor
saxophone, I must play it differently, more completely than if I had other
instruments to play.
> 16- You work with good drummers who bring a lot of ideas in the play (
> Joey Baron , Gerry Hemingway , Han Bennink .. ) . Do you want your
> rhythmics to be active in the play ?
Yes, I feel that my phrasing is one of the more unique aspects of my playing.
I have always felt a strong affinity to drummers since they seem to be able
to relate to this aspect of my playing very naturally.
> 17- You play as well as a leader or as a sideman . Is it the same
> pleasure and the same approach in the play in both cases ?
They are very different. Being a leader allows me to go much farther in a
particular direction. It's very satisfying to realize one's own concepts. I
also enjoy being a sideman since I like the challenge of bringing my sound
and concept to someone else's music. Whenever I am called upon to play in
someone else's band they are asking me to bring something of my own to their
music. It also allows me to explore concepts that I might not explore with my
own bands.
> 18 - A french journalist lately said that your sonorous originality was
> due to the fact you had the feets in the R&B and the head in the post free
> constelation . Is that a good definition ?
Perhaps that is true for my recording "The Sun Died" (which contained music
of Gene Ammons). But I don't think it is a good definition for my playing as
a whole. I have a lot of influences from beyond jazz and they all exist in my
playing simultaneously. Besides, I think that many so called "free" players
also have roots in R&B. My influences range from classical to rock to folk
musics and everything in between. I listen to anything and everything.
> 19- People who don't know jazz think it's an intellectual music . What
> do you think of people who try to facilitate the access to the jazz music
> (as Wynton Marsalis in New York ) ? Don't you think it can be bad for
> the music that people think Jazz is what Wynton marsalis is doing ? Do
> you think a musician should keep the faith on his ideas in music ?
I suppose that some people consider "intellectual music" to be a bad thing
although I don't really understand why. Jazz is as sophisticated as any other
music but it also has a very immediate visceral impact as well. You don't have
to understand it to enjoy it. That is also true for any type of music.
I think it is important to facilitate access to the music, whether by teaching,
writing articles, doing interviews, whatever. I suppose that there will never be
real agreement as to what jazz is or is supposed to be. The goal in trying to
educate people about this music is to be positive and try to turn people on, not
to be divisive and turn people off or make them feel negative towards music.
Yes, it is important for me to keep my concentration on the music and not be
distracted by other issues. Music is one of the true and pure joys of life and I
would like to keep it that way.
> 20- Do you have time to teach Jazz ?
No, not very much. I sometimes teach privately if I am asked. Occasionally I
will do a master class at a school when traveling on the road. I do not have a
strict methodology for teaching. I think there are many other people who do that
much better than I. When I give a lesson I generally try to look for a students
weaknesses to make sure that they are in control of certain fundamentals. After
that I like to offer alternative ways of thinking about improvising. I want to
give a student something to think about over time.
> 21 - You played with many europeans musicians ( Marc Ribot and Han
> Bennink ) . How did you meet them ? What did you learn from them ?
Marc Ribot is not European, he is American. I met Han Bennink in New York during
a series of duet concerts at the Knitting Factory. I was asked to play with him.
It was a success and we will tour Europe as a duo in December and make a
recording for the hatOLOGY label. I have played with a few other Europeans as
well. I usually meet them while on tours in Europe. I learned that I must not be
content to compare myself with American musicians alone.
> 22 - Generally , what do think of european Jazz ?
I am increasingly impressed by what I hear. It seems that European musicians
have been developing a unique approach to jazz and improvised music by
integrating their own traditions and ideas into the music rather than trying to
replicate the so called "jazz masters". This is very inspiring to me.
> 23 - Can you tell us about your projects , and your previous CDs for this
> year ?
I am continuing to perform and record with Andrea Parkins & Jim Black. We have
been performing for 4 years now and I see many continued possibilities. In
addition I continue to perform and record with Mark Helias, Gerry Hemingway,
Joey Baron and some others. Here is a list of new recordings for 1998:
"Kulak 29 & 30"-Ellery Eskelin with Andrea Parkins & Jim Black (hatOLOGY 521)
Soul Note - Various: Critics' Picks, Volume 3 (BSSNC003)
A sampler of various Soul Note artists
"The Grassy Knoll III" (Antilles/Verve)
San Francisco based project, with various artists.
"OPEN LOOSE"-Mark Helias, Ellery Eskelin, Tom Rainey (Koch, KOC-CD-7861)
"Fictionary"-Mark Helias Quartet (GM Recordings)
Mark Helias, Mark Feldman, Ellery Eskelin, Tom Rainey, Mike Sarin perform live
from Europe.
"Johnny's Corner Song"-Gerry Hemingway Quartet, Auricle Records (AUR-4).
featuring Robin Eubanks, Ellery Eskelin and Mark Dresser.
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eskelin@earthlink.net